"Drumline" movie ? for drummers

[KayChanclr]

If anyone who is quality enough of a drummer to recognize what is being played
in that movie can enlighten me with some info on any rudiments being played. I
am just curious if in the scenes where the snare line is doing something
besides playing that quarter note beat thing they are playing any rudiments or
just trash. I just don't have the skill to recognize it. Thanks for the info.

[TDOGGIEFIZZLE]

its pretty much slop. I have been to some of those band shows before and they
really are alot of fun for what they are. Alot of noise and hype for football
is what they do and most of those bands do it well. Especially grambling and
prairie view. But speaking from a technical standpoint, that movie and most of
those types of bands are pure garbage that any 4th grader with any kind of
training can accomplish.

[Toe]

the movie was trash.....it doesnt even make Traditional band seem cool.

its TRASH

[Jeff Kozol]

Unfortunately, it is popular here in South Florida. We call it "booty"
band. Help! Save us from this crap!

[Toe]

Post by Jeff Kozol
Unfortunately, it is popular here in South Florida. We call it "booty"
band. Help! Save us from this crap!

Where in So. FL are you at? cuz here in Miami its considered Garbage

[VKGARRY73]

I woulda cut the little brat, if for no other reason than his bad attitude.
Done it before, and I'd do it again.

VKG

<((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>¸.

·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>

[Benny Bass Drum]

Post by Toe
the movie was trash.....it doesnt even make Traditional band seem cool.
its TRASH

Another little tidbit about that movie-the bass drummers were
totally pathetic-and as far as playing rudiments-the bass drummers
didnt play squat.
The messages in the movies, as far as a learning thing went, were
conflicting and confusing. Totally pointless.........Benny

[Mike Albitz]

I'm gonna have to agree with the other reply that the movie is trash.

There are noticeable rudiment being played but I wouldn't use this a an
instructional video. I can say I have never seen a Pearl Free Floater and
old Ludwig sling in the same frame before this video.

I watched the entire movie and I will never get those 2 hours back.

Post by KayChanclr
If anyone who is quality enough of a drummer to recognize what is being played
in that movie can enlighten me with some info on any rudiments being played. I
am just curious if in the scenes where the snare line is doing something
besides playing that quarter note beat thing they are playing any rudiments or
just trash. I just don't have the skill to recognize it. Thanks for the info.

[Sis]

Post by Mike Albitz
I'm gonna have to agree with the other reply that the movie is trash.
There are noticeable rudiment being played but I wouldn't use this a an
instructional video. I can say I have never seen a Pearl Free Floater and
old Ludwig sling in the same frame before this video.
I watched the entire movie and I will never get those 2 hours back.

Hehehe. Who did you think "won" the drum-off?

Jackie

[Frank S. Jacobson]

The point of the movie, and what I tried to explain to my 15 year old
who only practices 15 minutes a week, is that if you want to do
something, you need to LEARN how to do it and practice it.

In the film, the 'newbie' wanted to play 'with the big boys but couldnt
because he couldnt read music. By finally acknowledging that fact and
taking a class, as well as 'partnering' with the senior to work as a
team, they became successful. No matter how rotten the drumming was,
this key message overshadowed, or should have overshadowed, the rotten
playing. (some of the efects were kinda cool, though, if you could have
a 45 member battery and carry a bottle of baby powder on the field)

jake

[TomAllen2001]

That "slop" made more money opening night than DCI has made in 30 years.

Regular drum corps (or "non-booty band") looks like a bunch of dorks compared
to Atlanta A&T and Morris Brown College.

DCI can't even get on PBS and the movie Drumline has made Nick Cannon an up and
coming movie star.

[TDOGGIEFIZZLE]

See, i dont even agree that the movie had a positive message. I felt at one
point that it was going that way cuz they kicked the little asshole off the
drumline and made him learn to read music and shit. When they did that i
thought "At least they are making a point" and then in the end they let the
fucker back in..... What a waste. Also, if either line "won" the drumoff it was
the "bad guys" in the movie. They were at least ATTEMPTING some shit tho
neither group acheived it. The best part of that movie was when the little
shitsmear got punched during the first drumoff. That was pure sweetness!! And
as far as the money thing, i would rather be good and not make that money! That
movie may have made more money than all of our circuits put together, but i
would rather be part of DCA,DCI corps any day!

[Sis]

Post by TDOGGIEFIZZLE
. Also, if either line "won" the drumoff it was
the "bad guys" in the movie.

There's a whole lot of us that agree with you on that.

Jackie

[HBeyer2177]

For once, my dear, I agree with you

Heather

Subject: Re: "Drumline" movie ? for drummers
Date: 12/17/03 8:26 PM Eastern Standard Time
See, i dont even agree that the movie had a positive message. I felt at one
point that it was going that way cuz they kicked the little asshole off the
drumline and made him learn to read music and shit. When they did that i
thought "At least they are making a point" and then in the end they let the
fucker back in..... What a waste. Also, if either line "won" the drumoff it was
the "bad guys" in the movie. They were at least ATTEMPTING some shit tho
neither group acheived it. The best part of that movie was when the little
shitsmear got punched during the first drumoff. That was pure sweetness!! And
as far as the money thing, i would rather be good and not make that money! That
movie may have made more money than all of our circuits put together, but i
would rather be part of DCA,DCI corps any day!

[Jeffsnewjetta]

i agree w/Tommy and Jake. the message seems lost here because people want to
discuss the quality.

those bands get national airtime...does drum corps?

Subject: Re: "Drumline" movie ? for drummers
Date: 12/17/2003 7:41 PM Eastern Standard Time
That "slop" made more money opening night than DCI has made in 30 years.
Regular drum corps (or "non-booty band") looks like a bunch of dorks compared
to Atlanta A&T and Morris Brown College.
DCI can't even get on PBS and the movie Drumline has made Nick Cannon an up and
coming movie star.

Jeff Ream

I am the drummer your color guard captain warned you about

[TDOGGIEFIZZLE]

But would we WANT airtime if that was the product that we were putting out
there? Im a div 3 caption head and lord knows I would LOVE some play on the
national level.... but not if i had to change to that crud to achieve it!

[Jeffsnewjetta]

who said ya had to change to "that crud"


but ya gotta appeal to the people, and sorry James Curnow pieces dont appeal to
the average Joe.

Subject: Re: "Drumline" movie ? for drummers
Date: 12/18/2003 8:00 AM Eastern Standard Time
But would we WANT airtime if that was the product that we were putting out
there? Im a div 3 caption head and lord knows I would LOVE some play on the
national level.... but not if i had to change to that crud to achieve it!

Jeff Ream

I am the drummer your color guard captain warned you about

[TDOGGIEFIZZLE]

very true Mr ream.. I agree with you to an extent. I know some people do
appreciate uncommon music. But i dont think we would do so well in competition
if we went out and put on a show like that. Nor do i think it would boost our
TV time.
T

[Jeffsnewjetta]

well quite honestly, what has become the largest complaint in drum corps today?


the music.

if the sheets are changed then a show like that could win.


after all, before concert band literature and concepts became the everyday
norm, there were a lot more people in the stands.

Subject: Re: "Drumline" movie ? for drummers
Date: 12/18/2003 8:12 PM Eastern Standard Time
very true Mr ream.. I agree with you to an extent. I know some people do
appreciate uncommon music. But i dont think we would do so well in competition
if we went out and put on a show like that. Nor do i think it would boost our
TV time.
T

Jeff Ream

I am the drummer your color guard captain warned you about

[Kingpin]

Post by TDOGGIEFIZZLE
But would we WANT airtime if that was the product that we were putting out
there? Im a div 3 caption head and lord knows I would LOVE some play on the
national level.... but not if i had to change to that crud to achieve it!

Funny, if anybody said your D3 corps sounded like "crud" you'd be up
in arms. How happy would you be if they started a message board and
stated all D2/3 corps were crud, crap or garbage. Duringthe Bayou
Classic, the halftime show was the HIGHEST RATED THING ON TV! How
many people came to the D2/3 finals this year?

Sorry if show bands don't fall within your "high artistic standards".
You're trying to compare apples to oranges. Until you can pull the
audience that they do leave it alone.

[TDOGGIEFIZZLE]

nah.. i wouldnt be up in arms if it was true. Ive been teaching for 11 years
and during that time some of my groups have gone out and put crud on the field.
Just not as consistently as the lines in that movie. If you read my post a
little more carefully (my first one on the topic that is) You would read that
i said that i like those kinds of show bands and respect them for what they
are. Loud, hypin and all of that for a football crowd. My comments were
strictly from a technical standpoint. I wasnt talking about my high standards.
I was talkin about what i hope are most peoples standards. A clean roll is a
clean roll is a clean roll. There was not one in that movie. That was my point.
They dont need to be clean because they perform to an audience of mainly non
musicians. But you also have to appreciate that in that movie they refer to
their groups as "the baddest drumline in the land!" and all sorts of little
things like that. We all know its not true. So your making an issue out of
nothing and clearly gettin worked up about it. Div2/3 finals were pretty well
attended this year tho. I appreciate you asking. It wasnt a sold out 70,000+
stadium unfortunately but it was good. hopefully we will get more this year.
But you comparing the TV ratings they get vs the attendance that drum corps
gets, thats really apples and oranges bro. The "White Stripes" (rock band)
gets tens of thousands of more people at their concerts than the NY
Philharmonic or the Presidents Own Marine band or the San Francisco Symphony
put together.
The White Stripes" must have been better musicians then right? Anyway, Dont be
so sensitive. im not gonna be when you try to put down DCI corps or something
else in a retaliatory manner. If i insulted you personaly somehow, i apologize.
But whoever started this thread asked and question, and i gave it my answer.
Take it light bro!

[TomAllen2001]

I'm surprised VK Garry would defend the kids trashing "Drumline."

These Div3 kids of the same cult who ridiculed VK, Bayonne, and my old corps,
Empire (in the 90's).

While those corps got nasty comments from other corps, they were still lightin'
up the crowds - and lovin' it.

Those Southern Show Bands wouldn't give a shit about DC in their NG because DC
is in their rear view window; it's unnecessary for them to even acknowledge the
existence of DC.

[TDOGGIEFIZZLE]

right on tom! keep goin with that! If it makes you feel better! Look back in
the rearview now and then and keep us up to speed with the "real drummin" of
the showbands.

[Jeffsnewjetta]

no you dont get it.


the point is, drum corps is a small niche activity that gets air time on PBS at
random times across the calendar.


it has no mainstream coverage


show bands, at least once a year get massive coverage on a network, and draws
higher ratings than the game does.

Buddy Rich used to bash drum corps drumming too...he even did it at a drum
corps standstill show in 1984 in Harrisburg.

"lets show these people what real drumming is all about ok boys?"


there is more real drumming than what we do.

look at modern drummer magazine. how much do they cover drum corps? or
downbeat?


MD covers it once a year as a token, and it mainly lists equipment used, not
what is played.

Subject: Re: "Drumline" movie ? for drummers
Date: 12/20/2003 11:20 AM Eastern Standard Time
right on tom! keep goin with that! If it makes you feel better! Look back in
the rearview now and then and keep us up to speed with the "real drummin" of
the showbands.

Jeff Ream

I am the drummer your color guard captain warned you about

[Wage Peace]

Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Date: 20 Dec 2003 16:59:26 GMT
Subject: Re: "Drumline" movie ? for drummers
no you dont get it.
the point is, drum corps is a small niche activity that gets air time on PBS
at random times across the calendar.
it has no mainstream coverage

Excellent point Mr. Snewjetta. :-)

show bands, at least once a year get massive coverage on a network, and draws
higher ratings than the game does.
Buddy Rich used to bash drum corps drumming too...he even did it at a drum
corps standstill show in 1984 in Harrisburg.
"lets show these people what real drumming is all about ok boys?"

I can totally imagine Buddy Rich being arrogant and obnoxious enough to say
that at a drum corps show. (I never played in his band, but have heard some
pretty amazing stories and tapes from friends who have ...)

But he sure could play a drumset, though. Damn!

Wage

there is more real drumming than what we do.
look at modern drummer magazine. how much do they cover drum corps? or
downbeat?
MD covers it once a year as a token, and it mainly lists equipment used, not
what is played.

Subject: Re: "Drumline" movie ? for drummers
Date: 12/20/2003 11:20 AM Eastern Standard Time
right on tom! keep goin with that! If it makes you feel better! Look back in
the rearview now and then and keep us up to speed with the "real drummin" of
the showbands.

Jeff Ream
I am the drummer your color guard captain warned you about

[TDOGGIEFIZZLE]

very true jeff! good point. My simple sarcastic remarks were to make a point to
a guy who comes onto a drum corps group and tells us how much we suck compared
to showbands because we dont fill an 80,000 seat stadium. thats all!

[Jeffsnewjetta]

well, in a way we do.


and the guy you refer to is a drum corps legend, on here if not in his own
Buffalo Bill loving mind(sorry TA, couldnt resist)


see, the show band guys market the hell out of themselves. when you see a
commercial for the game, you see the bands mentioned.

w/DCI, you dont even see an ad.

Subject: Re: "Drumline" movie ? for drummers
Date: 12/20/2003 1:49 PM Eastern Standard Time
very true jeff! good point. My simple sarcastic remarks were to make a point to
a guy who comes onto a drum corps group and tells us how much we suck compared
to showbands because we dont fill an 80,000 seat stadium. thats all!

Jeff Ream

I am the drummer your color guard captain warned you about

[Jeffsnewjetta]

Subject: Re: "Drumline" movie ? for drummers
Date: 12/20/2003 12:50 PM Eastern Standard Time

Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Date: 20 Dec 2003 16:59:26 GMT
Subject: Re: "Drumline" movie ? for drummers
no you dont get it.
the point is, drum corps is a small niche activity that gets air time on

PBS

at random times across the calendar.
it has no mainstream coverage

Excellent point Mr. Snewjetta. :-)

see what happens when we talk drum corps?

show bands, at least once a year get massive coverage on a network, and

draws

higher ratings than the game does.
Buddy Rich used to bash drum corps drumming too...he even did it at a drum
corps standstill show in 1984 in Harrisburg.
"lets show these people what real drumming is all about ok boys?"

I can totally imagine Buddy Rich being arrogant and obnoxious enough to say
that at a drum corps show. (I never played in his band, but have heard some
pretty amazing stories and tapes from friends who have ...)
But he sure could play a drumset, though. Damn!

sure could. plus he was kinda pissed that a guy from Westshore played set for
their rendition of Explosion that totally had the place screaming for more.

Wage

there is more real drumming than what we do.
look at modern drummer magazine. how much do they cover drum corps? or
downbeat?
MD covers it once a year as a token, and it mainly lists equipment used,

not

what is played.

Subject: Re: "Drumline" movie ? for drummers
Date: 12/20/2003 11:20 AM Eastern Standard Time
right on tom! keep goin with that! If it makes you feel better! Look back

in

the rearview now and then and keep us up to speed with the "real drummin"

of

the showbands.

Jeff Ream
I am the drummer your color guard captain warned you about

Jeff Ream

I am the drummer your color guard captain warned you about

[Wage Peace]

Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Date: 21 Dec 2003 05:56:46 GMT
Subject: Re: "Drumline" movie ? for drummers

Subject: Re: "Drumline" movie ? for drummers
Date: 12/20/2003 12:50 PM Eastern Standard Time

Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Date: 20 Dec 2003 16:59:26 GMT
Subject: Re: "Drumline" movie ? for drummers
no you dont get it.
the point is, drum corps is a small niche activity that gets air time on
PBS at random times across the calendar.
it has no mainstream coverage

Excellent point Mr. Snewjetta. :-)

see what happens when we talk drum corps?

I never doubted that we could see "eye to eye" about drum corps on occasion.
Did you?

Wage peace

show bands, at least once a year get massive coverage on a network, and

draws

higher ratings than the game does.
Buddy Rich used to bash drum corps drumming too...he even did it at a drum
corps standstill show in 1984 in Harrisburg.
"lets show these people what real drumming is all about ok boys?"

I can totally imagine Buddy Rich being arrogant and obnoxious enough to say
that at a drum corps show. (I never played in his band, but have heard some
pretty amazing stories and tapes from friends who have ...)
But he sure could play a drumset, though. Damn!

sure could. plus he was kinda pissed that a guy from Westshore played set for
their rendition of Explosion that totally had the place screaming for more.

Wage

there is more real drumming than what we do.
look at modern drummer magazine. how much do they cover drum corps? or
downbeat?
MD covers it once a year as a token, and it mainly lists equipment used,

not

what is played.

Subject: Re: "Drumline" movie ? for drummers
Date: 12/20/2003 11:20 AM Eastern Standard Time
right on tom! keep goin with that! If it makes you feel better! Look back

in

the rearview now and then and keep us up to speed with the "real drummin"

of

the showbands.

Jeff Ream
I am the drummer your color guard captain warned you about

Jeff Ream
I am the drummer your color guard captain warned you about

[TDOGGIEFIZZLE]

some very good points jeff,
However, in the end im talking about the actual music itself... not so much the
ratings it gets. sometimes things just done get the ratings they desearve.
Being a DCI percussion guy doesnt mean i get to control how it is marketed. I
never doubted that those guys do it better if they are getting the kind of play
they get, but oh well! i would rather stay here and get not as many people and
not compromise music to do it.

[Sis]

Post by TDOGGIEFIZZLE
i would rather stay here and get not as many people and
not compromise music to do it.

Sweet T-dogg.

How's Phoenix coming along?

Jackie

[TDOGGIEFIZZLE]

Its comin!! I think its gonna be a very good year! alot of new staff and we had
some very dedicated young people who are returning. I think div2/3 looks like
its gonna be pretty strong this year with the obvious exception of losing some
great corps. Everyone come check it out or a div 3 corps near you!
Tony Perez
Percussion Caption Head
Phoenix Drum and Bugle Corps
Vic Firth Education Team

[HBeyer2177]

Hey... I'll be looking for you (again) this season... Make sure you let me know
your schedule for the summer. You'll get another 'sweat hug'. lol

Love,
Heather
Bucs 94, 03-??
(once again, so look for me you slacker...)

Post by TDOGGIEFIZZLE
Its comin!! I think its gonna be a very good year! alot of new staff and we had
some very dedicated young people who are returning. I think div2/3 looks like
its gonna be pretty strong this year with the obvious exception of losing some
great corps. Everyone come check it out or a div 3 corps near you!
Tony Perez
Percussion Caption Head
Phoenix Drum and Bugle Corps
Vic Firth Education Team

[TDOGGIEFIZZLE]

You bet darlin!!
OOOH! a sweat hug! those are the greatest!! I cant wait for all of it to
really start up again! but i guess i should wait for indoor to get started huh?
Where should i march next summer?
Tizzle

[HBeyer2177]

yay! lol... Oh, and sweetheart... you have to go to Bucs... Know why??

Cause I said so...

Post by TDOGGIEFIZZLE
You bet darlin!!
OOOH! a sweat hug! those are the greatest!! I cant wait for all of it to
really start up again! but i guess i should wait for indoor to get started huh?
Where should i march next summer?
Tizzle

[Sis]

Post by HBeyer2177
yay! lol... Oh, and sweetheart... you have to go to Bucs... Know why??
Cause I said so...

Bam! Case closed. ;-)

Jackie

Post by HBeyer2177

Post by TDOGGIEFIZZLE
You bet darlin!!
OOOH! a sweat hug! those are the greatest!! I cant wait for all of it to
really start up again! but i guess i should wait for indoor to get started huh?
Where should i march next summer?
Tizzle

[HBeyer2177]

Exactly... When a woman speaks, he should listen. Anyone else agree??

Heather

Post by Sis
Bam! Case closed. ;-)
Jackie

[Sis]

Post by HBeyer2177
Exactly... When a woman speaks, he should listen. Anyone else agree??
Heather

You got my vote.

Jackie

[Jeffsnewjetta]

like we listen to you.

Subject: Re: "Drumline" movie ? for drummers
Date: 12/22/2003 7:08 PM Eastern Standard Time
Exactly... When a woman speaks, he should listen. Anyone else agree??
Heather

Post by Sis
Bam! Case closed. ;-)
Jackie

Jeff Ream

I am the drummer your color guard captain warned you about

[HBeyer2177]

You should Jeff.. I AM a Beyer, ya know... lol

Heather

Post by Jeffsnewjetta
like we listen to you.

Subject: Re: "Drumline" movie ? for drummers
Date: 12/22/2003 7:08 PM Eastern Standard Time
Exactly... When a woman speaks, he should listen. Anyone else agree??
Heather

Post by Sis
Bam! Case closed. ;-)
Jackie

[Jeffsnewjetta]

i rest my case.

Subject: Re: "Drumline" movie ? for drummers
Date: 12/23/2003 10:21 PM Eastern Standard Time
You should Jeff.. I AM a Beyer, ya know... lol
Heather

Post by Jeffsnewjetta
like we listen to you.

Subject: Re: "Drumline" movie ? for drummers
Date: 12/22/2003 7:08 PM Eastern Standard Time
Exactly... When a woman speaks, he should listen. Anyone else agree??
Heather

Post by Sis
Bam! Case closed. ;-)
Jackie

Jeff Ream

I am the drummer your color guard captain warned you about

[Jeffsnewjetta]

Subject: Re: "Drumline" movie ? for drummers
Date: 12/21/2003 12:41 PM Eastern Standard Time
some very good points jeff,
However, in the end im talking about the actual music itself... not so much the
ratings it gets. sometimes things just done get the ratings they desearve.

let me ask you a question. does Trittico draw the average persons ear or does
some good ole fashioned Earth Wind and Fire?

Does the canyon reach the average person, or James Brown.


the average person looks at Drum corps and says oh wow, um ok, cool, but the
music is a little heavy(not heard as much at DCA mind you)

yet when channel surfing, and you hear Livin In America, you're more apt to
watch for a bit.

Being a DCI percussion guy doesnt mean i get to control how it is marketed. I
never doubted that those guys do it better if they are getting the kind of play
they get, but oh well! i would rather stay here and get not as many people and
not compromise music to do it.

i would actually prefer to be entertained than educated.i dont need to be told
a story. i prefer col music, with highs and lows that doesnt haveme scurrying
to Amazon.com to find an obscure recording that may be out of print to hear the
original.
Jeff Ream

I am the drummer your color guard captain warned you about

[TDOGGIEFIZZLE]

And thats cool man... I have plenty of appreciation once again for what they
do.. But im not out to entertain the football crowd. I would rather be doing
what were doing. I believe in going WAY out there and finding stuff that hasnt
been done. I like the idea that something that is so different and not even
designed for corps can be experimented with. And as an instructor i like to
challenge the younguns. Thats why most of them tell me they come out. I know
some of these are just general differences in philosophy, and lord knows that
will just go round and round here. I know some people just prefer to hear whats
familiar and whats already been done and thats fine. Sometimes im the same way.
I was listening to my blue devils 84 and garfield 81 today and just kinda
wished that someone would do those again! like the exact same way. Oh well...

[Jeffsnewjetta]

the average momn and pop at a band show doesnt know the stuff played today.

most often they complain about it.


this trend started w/drum corps.


band shows get less than drum corps shows do fans wise.


as the shows have become more "undiscovered" the crowds have shrunk.

see any correlation?

Subject: Re: "Drumline" movie ? for drummers
Date: 12/22/2003 4:37 PM Eastern Standard Time
And thats cool man... I have plenty of appreciation once again for what they
do.. But im not out to entertain the football crowd. I would rather be doing
what were doing. I believe in going WAY out there and finding stuff that hasnt
been done. I like the idea that something that is so different and not even
designed for corps can be experimented with. And as an instructor i like to
challenge the younguns. Thats why most of them tell me they come out. I know
some of these are just general differences in philosophy, and lord knows that
will just go round and round here. I know some people just prefer to hear whats
familiar and whats already been done and thats fine. Sometimes im the same way.
I was listening to my blue devils 84 and garfield 81 today and just kinda
wished that someone would do those again! like the exact same way. Oh well...

Jeff Ream

I am the drummer your color guard captain warned you about

[TDOGGIEFIZZLE]

alot of people say the crowds disssappeared but ive been at finals the 5 years
and i see a pretty huge crowd! watching the vids from 82,92, and 2K2 i couldnt
see a huge difference in the crowd at finals. maybe your talkin about the other
shows leading up to, but otherwise it seems like its okay.

[Jeffsnewjetta]

i am refering to all shows, not just finals.

and remember, DCI will claim higher attendance figures for last year, becuase
they ran everything. there was no DCM or GSC or anyone else to cpmare to.


DCA was headed this way, but they seem to be reversing the trend slowly but
surely.

Subject: Re: "Drumline" movie ? for drummers
Date: 12/23/2003 2:21 PM Eastern Standard Time
alot of people say the crowds disssappeared but ive been at finals the 5 years
and i see a pretty huge crowd! watching the vids from 82,92, and 2K2 i couldnt
see a huge difference in the crowd at finals. maybe your talkin about the other
shows leading up to, but otherwise it seems like its okay.

Jeff Ream

I am the drummer your color guard captain warned you about

[VKGARRY73]

Post by TDOGGIEFIZZLE
alot of people say the crowds disssappeared but ive been at finals the 5 years
and i see a pretty huge crowd! watching the vids from 82,92, and 2K2 i couldnt
see a huge difference in the crowd at finals.

You really can't tell from videos.

Ever see a Saints or Super Bowl game on TV from the Superdome? They mix up the
seat colors so it's harder to see empty seats. no big blocks of same color
seats to indicate the empty ones.

I will say that 81 and 82 in Montreal were two of the DCI championships with
the biggest attendance. 81 was just shy of 40K. Recent finals can't touch that
number.

VKG

<((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>¸.

·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>

[Sis]

Post by VKGARRY73
. 81 was just shy of 40K. Recent finals can't touch that
number.

Hammer Time! Can't touch that.....

Jackie

[Steve Spang]

Post by Jeffsnewjetta
band shows get less than drum corps shows do fans wise.

Jeff, I've been attending an annual Band show, held here, in Everett, WA, for the
past few years.

It's a precursor for the State finals, held in Auburn (around Vet's Day). The
best of 'The Best'. True, they try to emulate corps.

IMO, I find the band members, kids who are 'corps' wannabe's. But, they lack the
funds or talent necessary. Not their fault. There was a time when corps accepted
anyone with 'heart'.

I found the stands packed with parents and friends who cheered their band on.
Losing was not an option. They boo'd the winners. A bad habit portrayed by 80's
parenting who believe in a 'feel good' society, but don't practice the same
principle with others' children.

I marched (jr. corps/HS band) during the 60's. I was the 'nerd' bando geek
everyone made fun of. Yea, the kid who wore a pocket protector and a slide rule
in his back pocket. I was good in math and architectural drafting. Drumming was a
natural. I was made for band.

Point being... I disagree with your basic statement. There are more kids (family)
involved with school band while it still exists in most major school districts.

Drumcorps has, and will always be, for those kids who think and play a notch
above all others. Period. Smaller 'nitch' audience.

Personally speaking, I held 1st chair (percussion) from the 6th grade until 12th
grade band due to my drumcorps teachings and experience. It was an easy 'A'.

--
Steve

[Jeffsnewjetta]

Steve,

I am not sayingband is better than corps.

But i am stating drum corps draws in more fans. the local circuit here has
their finals the same place DCA does. when you take out of the picture all the
kids in the stands that make it look full, those who had competed earlier in
the night/day, the paid total in attendance is 1/3 of what DCA pulls.


the other local circuit who runs in HersheyPark Stadium maybe pulls 1000 paid,
and the summer corps show pulls anywhere from 4500-6000.


so yes, overall, drum corps pulls in moe paying fans than band shows do.

Subject: Re: "Drumline" movie ? for drummers
Date: 12/27/2003 3:10 PM Eastern Standard Time

Post by Jeffsnewjetta
band shows get less than drum corps shows do fans wise.

Jeff, I've been attending an annual Band show, held here, in Everett, WA, for the
past few years.
It's a precursor for the State finals, held in Auburn (around Vet's Day). The
best of 'The Best'. True, they try to emulate corps.
IMO, I find the band members, kids who are 'corps' wannabe's. But, they lack the
funds or talent necessary. Not their fault. There was a time when corps accepted
anyone with 'heart'.
I found the stands packed with parents and friends who cheered their band on.
Losing was not an option. They boo'd the winners. A bad habit portrayed by 80's
parenting who believe in a 'feel good' society, but don't practice the same
principle with others' children.
I marched (jr. corps/HS band) during the 60's. I was the 'nerd' bando geek
everyone made fun of. Yea, the kid who wore a pocket protector and a slide rule
in his back pocket. I was good in math and architectural drafting. Drumming was a
natural. I was made for band.
Point being... I disagree with your basic statement. There are more kids (family)
involved with school band while it still exists in most major school districts.
Drumcorps has, and will always be, for those kids who think and play a notch
above all others. Period. Smaller 'nitch' audience.
Personally speaking, I held 1st chair (percussion) from the 6th grade until 12th
grade band due to my drumcorps teachings and experience. It was an easy 'A'.
--
Steve

Jeff Ream

I am the drummer your color guard captain warned you about

[Steve Spang]

Post by Jeffsnewjetta
Steve,
I am not sayingband is better than corps.
But i am stating drum corps draws in more fans. the local circuit here has
their finals the same place DCA does. when you take out of the picture all the
kids in the stands that make it look full, those who had competed earlier in
the night/day, the paid total in attendance is 1/3 of what DCA pulls.
the other local circuit who runs in HersheyPark Stadium maybe pulls 1000 paid,
and the summer corps show pulls anywhere from 4500-6000.
so yes, overall, drum corps pulls in moe paying fans than band shows do.

Thanx, Jeff. I better understand your POV. Maybe this is an east/west coast kinda
thing?

Band shows are BIG here. They run about an 18 hour day with pre-lims during the
afternoon and a finals show at night. Almost every kid on the field has parents
and/or friends in the stands. At $10 a pop, we're talking about some big bucks
when dealing with volume.

Not to mention my consumption of hot chocolate alone, on a cold October night.
:-)

Corps shows, on the other hand, (we only get one, late June/early July) charge
$20 a pop. DCI does little to no marketing of this show locally, whatsoever. The
stands are filled with 60's alums, when corps once flourished around Seattle and
the Puget Sound area. This number dwindles each year as corps moves toward a
bando style.

Since most of the corps are from out of state, you find very few parents and
friends in the stands. We cheer most corps based on past reputation. And what we
remember.

The total numbers are small and getting smaller with each year as people lose
interest. Competitive Jr. Corps is fading fast in the Pac NW.

Senior Corps is almost non-existent (once again). It's a wonder NWVenture can
stay afloat. I fully expect them to bite the dust very shortly. Apathy and
mis-management will be the major cause. They refuse to listen to a very strong
alum base. Their loss. IMO.

--
Steve

[Catherine]

Post by Steve Spang

Post by Jeffsnewjetta
Steve,
I am not sayingband is better than corps.
But i am stating drum corps draws in more fans. the local circuit here has
their finals the same place DCA does. when you take out of the picture all the
kids in the stands that make it look full, those who had competed earlier in
the night/day, the paid total in attendance is 1/3 of what DCA pulls.
the other local circuit who runs in HersheyPark Stadium maybe pulls 1000 paid,
and the summer corps show pulls anywhere from 4500-6000.
so yes, overall, drum corps pulls in moe paying fans than band shows do.

Thanx, Jeff. I better understand your POV. Maybe this is an east/west coast kinda
thing?

As someone who has lived in Seattle and who also marches and participates back east?
It's not so much the coasts themselves but the people and a culture. People back
east still remember and carry fraternal ties forward. The post affiliations, the
respect for history and military ties, and "what worked then will work now" hasn't
been forgotten. The further east one goes, the more it's even promulgated and seen
as desirable by those younger ones upcoming.

Of course, that's not the only reason - EVERYONE's influences are also more prevalent
on the west coast, as we didn't have 100s of drum corps close together with all those
networks of people to corrupt, even as we had many more then who were clearly drum &
bugle corps, and caring about the same things east coasters did, than now.

Post by Steve Spang
Band shows are BIG here. They run about an 18 hour day with pre-lims during the
afternoon and a finals show at night. Almost every kid on the field has parents
and/or friends in the stands. At $10 a pop, we're talking about some big bucks
when dealing with volume.
Not to mention my consumption of hot chocolate alone, on a cold October night.
:-)
Corps shows, on the other hand, (we only get one, late June/early July) charge
$20 a pop. DCI does little to no marketing of this show locally, whatsoever. The
stands are filled with 60's alums, when corps once flourished around Seattle and
the Puget Sound area. This number dwindles each year as corps moves toward a
bando style.

Because band kids and band markets are seen as more important considerations than
drum & bugle corps that are uniquely drum & bugle corps, and with respect to drum &
bugle corps history, values and traditions.

Post by Steve Spang
Since most of the corps are from out of state, you find very few parents and
friends in the stands. We cheer most corps based on past reputation. And what we
remember.

One of the best things about going east is being able to immerse oneself in what one
retains, and realizing how much one has forgotten - because one was cheated therefrom
for so very long.

Post by Steve Spang
The total numbers are small and getting smaller with each year as people lose
interest. Competitive Jr. Corps is fading fast in the Pac NW.

Why should they be interested in something which is largely forgotten, and marketed
(positively and otherwise) as such? If there are no genuine differences to be
perceived, and if the traditional drum corps member markets are told how much less
they are than band kids, why should they be interested?

Post by Steve Spang
Senior Corps is almost non-existent (once again). It's a wonder NWVenture can
stay afloat. I fully expect them to bite the dust very shortly. Apathy and
mis-management will be the major cause. They refuse to listen to a very strong
alum base. Their loss. IMO.

If the alumni base were strong enough and cared to do so, they would create more
corps that are uniquely corps. Unfortunately, blando bando corps doesn't work. It's
a corrupted format, and kids looking for something genuine - rather than the mediocre
and the naive who buy into the hype (of which I was once one of the latter [yes,
EVERYONE says the former as well, I know]) - will go with the superior form of band
as opposed to some wannabe, abusive, lying network with a future that's not being
advertised as needing to morph into anything at all.

All those people pretending to want to "bring something of what they got from corps"
into some blando bando situation need to realize they are undercutting their own
statements and goals by the very actions and words they use. And increasingly,
potential and actual members are realizing it as well - and from "educators" no less.

-- Catherine

Post by Steve Spang
--
Steve

[Jeffsnewjetta]

Subject: Re: "Drumline" movie ? for drummers
Date: 12/28/2003 1:28 PM Eastern Standard Time

Post by Jeffsnewjetta
Steve,
I am not sayingband is better than corps.
But i am stating drum corps draws in more fans. the local circuit here has
their finals the same place DCA does. when you take out of the picture all

the

Post by Jeffsnewjetta
kids in the stands that make it look full, those who had competed earlier

in

Post by Jeffsnewjetta
the night/day, the paid total in attendance is 1/3 of what DCA pulls.
the other local circuit who runs in HersheyPark Stadium maybe pulls 1000

paid,

Post by Jeffsnewjetta
and the summer corps show pulls anywhere from 4500-6000.
so yes, overall, drum corps pulls in moe paying fans than band shows do.

Thanx, Jeff. I better understand your POV. Maybe this is an east/west coast kinda
thing?

I dunno. TOB, who runs in Scranton is huge. pulls in roughly 120 bands over 2
days.Show runs from 8 amish to 11pmish. Part of the problem may be the huge
distances some of the bands have to travel to get there. TOB encompasses PA,
NY, NJ, MD, DE, VA, WVA and NC...used to be some from Ohio too.

Plus band size varies. if Group 1, 35 musicians or less is on, less parents to
pull in. But the bigger bands seem to have more parent helpers, who of course
get in free then stay in the stands to watch the rest of the show.

Cavalcade, who runs in Hershey is a smaller circuit....maybe 20 bands total
anymore.

Band shows are BIG here. They run about an 18 hour day with pre-lims during the
afternoon and a finals show at night. Almost every kid on the field has parents
and/or friends in the stands. At $10 a pop, we're talking about some big bucks
when dealing with volume.

I know the local shows get full, but most of the stadiums hold 1000 max.

Not to mention my consumption of hot chocolate alone, on a cold October night.
:-)

Now there, TOB makes nothing on at ACC's, as they have local groups come in and
run the conccseions...the stadium may even set that up. I know the Stadium Club
makes a killing on the buffet and the bar.

Corps shows, on the other hand, (we only get one, late June/early July) charge
$20 a pop. DCI does little to no marketing of this show locally, whatsoever. The
stands are filled with 60's alums, when corps once flourished around Seattle and
the Puget Sound area. This number dwindles each year as corps moves toward a
bando style.

crowd sizes have gotten smaller here too...i see lot less of dad's friends
around. Hershey, the return of Lewisburg and Reading are basically the only
shows in this part of PA anymore. Used to have those three, plus Danville,
Carlisle, Hanover, Mechanicsburg, Allentown, Lewistown,Lansdale, Red Lion,
Cedar Cliff, Millersville, and others i am sure i forgot.

hell, in the early 90's, Scranton had a regular season show plus they sponsored
finals.

Since most of the corps are from out of state, you find very few parents and
friends in the stands. We cheer most corps based on past reputation. And what we
remember.

same here. hell at Hershey, you have a ton of locals cheering on corps who have
local members...yet the corps are from out of state!

The total numbers are small and getting smaller with each year as people lose
interest. Competitive Jr. Corps is fading fast in the Pac NW.

look at senior corps around here....you have Reading. Used to have Westshore,
Hanover, Archie, Yankee Rebels, Steel City, Chieftains and the Keystoners all
within 2 hours.

now, we have members locally in Reading, but also in Bush, Cabs, Empire, Brigs
and Sky.

Senior Corps is almost non-existent (once again). It's a wonder NWVenture can
stay afloat. I fully expect them to bite the dust very shortly. Apathy and
mis-management will be the major cause. They refuse to listen to a very strong
alum base. Their loss. IMO.

then i say get more involved. I am.

--
Steve

Jeff Ream

I am the drummer your color guard captain warned you about

[VKGARRY73]

Post by Steve Spang
Senior Corps is almost non-existent (once again). It's a wonder NWVenture can
stay afloat. I fully expect them to bite the dust very shortly. Apathy and
mis-management will be the major cause. They refuse to listen to a very strong
alum base. Their loss. IMO.

Steve, I think it's best if everyone lets NWV find it's own course. It sure
doesn't help them if people read negative comments like these. Keith is working
hard to put them back on the field. I've spent a lot of time recently helping
him find some staff people.

If what they're doing isn't your cup of tea, so be it. Let NWV go their way.

VKG

Post by Steve Spang
<((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>¸.

·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>

[Catherine]

Post by VKGARRY73

Post by Steve Spang
Senior Corps is almost non-existent (once again). It's a wonder NWVenture can
stay afloat. I fully expect them to bite the dust very shortly. Apathy and
mis-management will be the major cause. They refuse to listen to a very strong
alum base. Their loss. IMO.

Steve, I think it's best if everyone lets NWV find it's own course. It sure
doesn't help them if people read negative comments like these. Keith is working
hard to put them back on the field. I've spent a lot of time recently helping
him find some staff people.
If what they're doing isn't your cup of tea, so be it. Let NWV go their way.

There's a certain irony in alumni-style corps, formed by corps alumni for those
purposes, that don't listen to their own alumni and expect to find anything other
than the loss of that which fueled them in the first place.

-- Catherine

Post by VKGARRY73
VKG

Post by Steve Spang
<((((º>`·.žž.·Ž¯`·.ž.·Ž¯`·...ž><((((º>ž.

·Ž¯`·.ž. , . .·Ž¯`·.. ><((((º>`·.žž.·Ž¯`·.ž.·Ž¯`·...ž><((((º>

[Jeffsnewjetta]

um, isn't NWV set up for competition and not alumni style corps?


maybe therein the issue lies?

Subject: Re: "Drumline" movie ? for drummers
Date: 12/29/2003 11:37 PM Eastern Standard Time

Post by VKGARRY73

Post by Steve Spang
Senior Corps is almost non-existent (once again). It's a wonder NWVenture

can

Post by VKGARRY73

Post by Steve Spang
stay afloat. I fully expect them to bite the dust very shortly. Apathy and
mis-management will be the major cause. They refuse to listen to a very strong
alum base. Their loss. IMO.

Steve, I think it's best if everyone lets NWV find it's own course. It sure
doesn't help them if people read negative comments like these. Keith is

working

Post by VKGARRY73
hard to put them back on the field. I've spent a lot of time recently

helping

Post by VKGARRY73
him find some staff people.
If what they're doing isn't your cup of tea, so be it. Let NWV go their

way.
There's a certain irony in alumni-style corps, formed by corps alumni for those
purposes, that don't listen to their own alumni and expect to find anything other
than the loss of that which fueled them in the first place.
-- Catherine

Post by VKGARRY73
VKG

Post by Steve Spang
<((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>¸.

·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>

Jeff Ream

I am the drummer your color guard captain warned you about

[VKGARRY73]

Post by Jeffsnewjetta
um, isn't NWV set up for competition and not alumni style corps?
maybe therein the issue lies?

bingo

VKG

Post by Jeffsnewjetta
<((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>¸.

·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>

[Steve Spang]

Post by Jeffsnewjetta
um, isn't NWV set up for competition and not alumni style corps?
maybe therein the issue lies?

um... when we 'officially' started, summer of 98. Yea, we were some old timers
who wanted to enjoy some of the pleasures of the summer during our youth.

We all enjoyed some good times. And wanted to recapture some of it's vim and
vigor. When we were kids. What's wrong with that?

I enjoyed some good bus trips to CA with NWV chatting/remembering old sunrises
with an old Imperial combatant (female), in a new and different light. We were
now on the same team. Enjoying the same sunrise from a chartered bus window.
Enjoying the same CA scenery at sunrise... my tiny dancer. ;-)

--
Steve

[Jeffsnewjetta]

ok, so a suggestion.


be involved in helping build an alumni faction that supports the alumni who do
not want a field corps.


I read Mike Phillips interview in DCW, and i think his plan for the Kilties,
which is similar to what is slowly shaping up w/Westshore is a good way to go.


get alumni involved, maybe even an alumni corps. build that base that wants a
field corps too, but doesnt neccessarily want to do it full time.Yet these
people will care enough to help out, no mater how small to see a field corps go
on and do the name proud.


i know here, if it weren't for 30 or so dedicated alumni, we wouldnt be on the
(slow) road to recovery. the alumni corps growth in 3 years has been amazing,
and it's helped lead to interest in having the "young bucks" out there doing it
full time.

Subject: Re: "Drumline" movie ? for drummers
Date: 1/3/2004 6:37 PM Eastern Standard Time

Post by Jeffsnewjetta
um, isn't NWV set up for competition and not alumni style corps?
maybe therein the issue lies?

um... when we 'officially' started, summer of 98. Yea, we were some old timers
who wanted to enjoy some of the pleasures of the summer during our youth.
We all enjoyed some good times. And wanted to recapture some of it's vim and
vigor. When we were kids. What's wrong with that?
I enjoyed some good bus trips to CA with NWV chatting/remembering old sunrises
with an old Imperial combatant (female), in a new and different light. We were
now on the same team. Enjoying the same sunrise from a chartered bus window.
Enjoying the same CA scenery at sunrise... my tiny dancer. ;-)
--
Steve

Jeff Ream

I am the drummer your color guard captain warned you about

[Steve Spang]

Post by Jeffsnewjetta
I read Mike Phillips interview in DCW, and i think his plan for the Kilties,
which is similar to what is slowly shaping up w/Westshore is a good way to go.

I read it , too, Jeff.

Post by Jeffsnewjetta
get alumni involved, maybe even an alumni corps. build that base that wants a
field corps too, but doesnt neccessarily want to do it full time.Yet these
people will care enough to help out, no mater how small to see a field corps go
on and do the name proud.

We've tried that, on occasion, but the two factions always clashed on rep and the
biggee... whether to march a full field show, or not.

Time invested has always been the breaking point. Those who have, and those who
have not. Understand, employment is very shaky, at best, in the Pac NW. Factor in
family time, and you have one very stressed out individual. This combination does
not field a good corps.

People tend to think I'm down on NWV. True, I feel hurt about my lost investment.
But, nothing like members who try to juggle family, job, and corps. I still
believe strongly in corps and it's basic philosophy.

Post by Jeffsnewjetta
i know here, if it weren't for 30 or so dedicated alumni, we wouldnt be on the
(slow) road to recovery. the alumni corps growth in 3 years has been amazing,
and it's helped lead to interest in having the "young bucks" out there doing it
full time.

Food for thought. Thanx, Jeff.

--
Steve

[Jeffsnewjetta]

Post by TomAllen2001

Post by Jeffsnewjetta
get alumni involved, maybe even an alumni corps. build that base that wants

a

Post by Jeffsnewjetta
field corps too, but doesnt neccessarily want to do it full time.Yet these
people will care enough to help out, no mater how small to see a field

corps go

Post by Jeffsnewjetta
on and do the name proud.

We've tried that, on occasion, but the two factions always clashed on rep and the
biggee... whether to march a full field show, or not.

there's the problem. it isn't the alumni's place to dictate what the field
corps plays, just to say "go get em kids". By the alumni dictating terms,
you've already lost the battle.

Post by TomAllen2001
Time invested has always been the breaking point. Those who have, and those who
have not. Understand, employment is very shaky, at best, in the Pac NW. Factor in
family time, and you have one very stressed out individual. This combination does
not field a good corps.

then dont do it. but support them, not dictate terms to them.


you think Cabs alumni tells cabs field what to play? hell no. Now, does Cabs
field have enough of a sense of tradition to stay close to the roots yet be
able to go and do their thing? sure do.

after all i'd say "Running of the Buls" is a very Cabs show title.

Post by TomAllen2001
People tend to think I'm down on NWV. True, I feel hurt about my lost investment.
But, nothing like members who try to juggle family, job, and corps. I still
believe strongly in corps and it's basic philosophy.

I understand. it's tough not to get down on SHore at times due to the past. But
as hindsight has taught me, better to find any way to help as opossed to just
bitching about it 24/7.

then again, if you are so involved it has you stressed, maybe you do need to
step back and clear your head too.


Jeff Ream

I am the drummer your color guard captain warned you about

[Steve Spang]

Post by Catherine
There's a certain irony in alumni-style corps, formed by corps alumni for those
purposes, that don't listen to their own alumni and expect to find anything other
than the loss of that which fueled them in the first place.>

Exactly, Catherine.

In other words. Was once started to be a good thing has since turned to be
another... for better or worse.

Andy Lisko (Skyliners) warned me a few ago, when I first started raising questions
and noticed a change in direction.

Things evolve and change with time depending upon the people involved... not always
for the better. Most times regrettable.

--
Steve

[Steve Spang]

Post by VKGARRY73

Post by Steve Spang
Senior Corps is almost non-existent (once again). It's a wonder NWVenture can
stay afloat. I fully expect them to bite the dust very shortly. Apathy and
mis-management will be the major cause. They refuse to listen to a very strong
alum base. Their loss. IMO.

Steve, I think it's best if everyone lets NWV find it's own course.

Agreed.

Post by VKGARRY73
It sure
doesn't help them if people read negative comments like these.

Like newspapers... there's both good and bad happening within any given activity.
Our responsibility (as Vets who care) is to report any discrepancy we find.

Post by VKGARRY73
Keith is working
hard to put them back on the field. I've spent a lot of time recently helping
him find some staff people.

Keith is a fraud. Although, technically, a very accomplished drummer, he has NO
experience with a traveling 'tour' corps.

His whole resume, is around 1 weekend camp with BD. Read it. He never made their
line.

He never marched a single season with corps, and virtually no marching experience.

"I'm going to place my future in this man's hands?", I don't think so...

How can he direct a Senior Corps, when he can't direct his own?

Garry, you (kinda) know me. No bullshit. Keith is all talk (no produce), whereas,
people like Jim (Nevermann) is ALL about product and very little, to no show,
about produce. Although, he does participate.

Keith refuses to play on the field anymore with 'the line' after dropping his
sticks, in Seattle 2001. Flustered, he didn't know what to do, until a field judge
handed him his sticks. Embarrassed. Caption Head.

This is where it draws a difference between the two. Jim would have made the
accident a part of the show (I've done it many times), whereas Keith chose to make
it 'noticed' and withdrew. Night and Day.

What can I say?... dropping your sticks on the field has to be one of the most
embarrassing moments for any drummer. I've done it, once or twice, over the past
400 years. :-)

There was a saying during the 60's. If you lose one stick... throw the other one
away. They can't tic you for doing 'air drumming'. :-)

Point being... don't try teaching unless you've marched about a mile (or 5) in my
white bucks.

And don't try playing Monday morning quarterback unless you've been under the
spotlights (Jason).

--
Steve

[VKGARRY73]

Post by Steve Spang

Post by VKGARRY73
Steve, I think it's best if everyone lets NWV find it's own course.

Agreed.

Then let them.

<rest snipped for the good of NWV>

Raving on and on about what you don't like about the corps won't help. People
will find out on their own if what you say is true, but it's their decision to
stay and make it better, or go their own way, as you have.

Please, leave them alone.

VKG

PS Are you going to play with Jim's parade drum line?

Post by Steve Spang
<((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>¸.

·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>

[Steve Spang]

Post by VKGARRY73

Post by Steve Spang

Post by VKGARRY73
Steve, I think it's best if everyone lets NWV find it's own course.

Agreed.

Then let them.
<rest snipped for the good of NWV>
Raving on and on about what you don't like about the corps won't help. People
will find out on their own if what you say is true, but it's their decision to
stay and make it better, or go their own way, as you have.
Please, leave them alone.

Will do. Understand, I spent over 5 years trying to build this corps. It hurts,
deeply. I took almost nothing away, albeit, a little more experience and nothing
else. Other than the 14" Black Maxx head that sits in my closet, begging to be
played on, once again. 'I' bought and paid for it.

Management decided to go in direction A, while a lot of us 'old timers' wanted to
pursue direction B. Never the Twain shall meet, so be it.

Post by VKGARRY73
PS Are you going to play with Jim's parade drum line?

You bet. Wherever Jim goes, I shall follow, and he KNOWS it. We think along
parallel levels, we grew up together in corps.

We both want to hear the 'Thunder' of drums coming down the street that makes the
earth move under your feet. (Thanx Carole King).

Little did she know, she was an inspiration. Little did we know we would both
want the same thing, some 30 years later.

Fact IS stranger than fiction...

--
Steve

[Steve Spang]

From: jeffsnewjetta (Jeff Ream);
Buddy Rich used to bash drum corps drumming too...he even did it at a drum
corps standstill show in 1984 in Harrisburg.

Interjection... many pardons.

Drummers are a curious breed by nature. We love to taunt and egg each other on for
some strange reason.

Jeff, (having grown up with corps and being a drummer) I'm sure understands this
phenom...

'Buddy', no doubt, was talking with his tongue firmly in cheek as a taunt. He
(like many of us) was a very ego-centric man.

I wasn't at Harrisburg 84, but I did see him on some talk show where he again
challenged drumcorps drummers (Johnny Carson?). It made me laugh at first, but
then, he put on a very good show as an accomplished drummer with his band.
Whoa...!

'Drumline' the movie, had two major messages. 1. Learn to read music... you'll
never make it thru life with 'rote' memorization. Apply it any way you can. 2.
You're only as good as the line you play in, as a 'whole'. It's a section effort.

These were the lessons I learned at age 12 when I joined the Seattle Shamrock
Bel-Airs (feeder corps) in 1964.

--
Steve

[Jeffsnewjetta]

actually, knowing Buddy, he was tongue in cheek yet meaning it at the same
time.

one thing about him, he never held back.

Subject: Re: "Drumline" movie ? for drummers
Date: 12/21/2003 2:35 PM Eastern Standard Time

From: jeffsnewjetta (Jeff Ream);
Buddy Rich used to bash drum corps drumming too...he even did it at a

drum

corps standstill show in 1984 in Harrisburg.

Interjection... many pardons.
Drummers are a curious breed by nature. We love to taunt and egg each other on for
some strange reason.
Jeff, (having grown up with corps and being a drummer) I'm sure understands this
phenom...
'Buddy', no doubt, was talking with his tongue firmly in cheek as a taunt. He
(like many of us) was a very ego-centric man.
I wasn't at Harrisburg 84, but I did see him on some talk show where he again
challenged drumcorps drummers (Johnny Carson?). It made me laugh at first, but
then, he put on a very good show as an accomplished drummer with his band.
Whoa...!
'Drumline' the movie, had two major messages. 1. Learn to read music... you'll
never make it thru life with 'rote' memorization. Apply it any way you can. 2.
You're only as good as the line you play in, as a 'whole'. It's a section effort.
These were the lessons I learned at age 12 when I joined the Seattle Shamrock
Bel-Airs (feeder corps) in 1964.
--
Steve

Jeff Ream

I am the drummer your color guard captain warned you about

[Sis]

Post by TDOGGIEFIZZLE
right on tom! keep goin with that! If it makes you feel better! Look back in
the rearview now and then and keep us up to speed with the "real drummin" of
the showbands.

He's been looking in that " Things in This Mirror Appear Further Away
then they actually are" mirror again. If he stops looking backward, he
just may find us! ;-)

Jackie

[VKGARRY73]

Post by TomAllen2001
I'm surprised VK Garry would defend the kids trashing "Drumline."

Where did I do that? What I did say is that you can expect some criticism of
that style of drumming on a drum corps newsgroup, just as you could expect a
criticism of drum corps drumming on a show band newsgroup. It's just gonna
happen, no matter what I say.

Post by TomAllen2001
These Div3 kids of the same cult who ridiculed VK, Bayonne, and my old corps,
Empire (in the 90's).

They did? So what? People bitch about every corps here.

Post by TomAllen2001
While those corps got nasty comments from other corps, they were still lightin'
up the crowds - and lovin' it.

You're gonna get nasty comments no matter what corps you're in.

Post by TomAllen2001
Those Southern Show Bands wouldn't give a shit about DC in their NG because DC
is in their rear view window; it's unnecessary for them to even acknowledge the
existence of DC.

I don't think it's necessarily a rear-view mirror. It's just different. Two
styles that try to achieve different goals. I won't say which is better. That's
up to individuals to decide. I know which one I prefer and I do that.

Why so defensive, Tom?

VKG

Post by TomAllen2001
<((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>¸.

·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>

[cc]

Post by Frank S. Jacobson
The point of the movie, and what I tried to explain to my 15 year old
who only practices 15 minutes a week, is that if you want to do
something, you need to LEARN how to do it and practice it.
In the film, the 'newbie' wanted to play 'with the big boys but couldnt
because he couldnt read music. By finally acknowledging that fact and
taking a class, as well as 'partnering' with the senior to work as a
team, they became successful. No matter how rotten the drumming was,
this key message overshadowed, or should have overshadowed, the rotten
playing. (some of the efects were kinda cool, though, if you could have
a 45 member battery and carry a bottle of baby powder on the field)
jake

I don't think he ever did learn how to read music did he?

My favourite line was when some guy said it was really hard to switch
from "corps-style" marching to "traditional".

[PERC 1]

Wasn't it really a "Love story" in disguise? The drumline was the vehicle.

[Kingpin]

Let me get this straight: People who would defend a bad drum corps
show to the death because they don't want to "hurt the kids feelings"
are quick to pull the trigger on show bands and call them a piece a
crap? Real hypocritical. True, some are not of the best quality, but
that's not a reason to trash all show bands because in our attempts to
be politically correct, deep down inside we all know we've seen a drum
corps show that made us ask that all important question: "What the
fuck am I watching?!?!"

I marched in a corps and instructed both corps-style and show bands
and if it makes you feel better, I can tell you first hand that a
large number of a show band members think the same thing about drum
corps. And I can tell you that they don't argue about how B-flat
horns and amplification are ruining the activity or worrying about the
declining attendance at their performances and you never hear them
discussing a "return to crowd pleasing shows." They go out, work
hard, entertain the crowd and people travel to see them. That's why
when the "Battle of the Bands" was held in the Georgia Dome featuring
HIGH SCHOOL SHOW BANDS, it sold out every year. Yet Lassiter High
School wins BOA and there's barely a mention and a show where the Blue
Devils, Cadets, Spirit, and the Cavaliers competed drew only a
fraction of the audience.

Do you think people travel from all over the country or watch the
Bayou Classic on NBC because it's a great game? No, they want to see
the halftime show. NBC realizes it and makes it a part of the
advertising. Remember that the next time you're wondering if the DCI
broadcast will be shown in your area.

[Jeffsnewjetta]

bravo

Subject: Re: "Drumline" movie ? for drummers
Date: 12/18/2003 11:44 AM Eastern Standard Time
Let me get this straight: People who would defend a bad drum corps
show to the death because they don't want to "hurt the kids feelings"
are quick to pull the trigger on show bands and call them a piece a
crap? Real hypocritical. True, some are not of the best quality, but
that's not a reason to trash all show bands because in our attempts to
be politically correct, deep down inside we all know we've seen a drum
corps show that made us ask that all important question: "What the
fuck am I watching?!?!"
I marched in a corps and instructed both corps-style and show bands
and if it makes you feel better, I can tell you first hand that a
large number of a show band members think the same thing about drum
corps. And I can tell you that they don't argue about how B-flat
horns and amplification are ruining the activity or worrying about the
declining attendance at their performances and you never hear them
discussing a "return to crowd pleasing shows." They go out, work
hard, entertain the crowd and people travel to see them. That's why
when the "Battle of the Bands" was held in the Georgia Dome featuring
HIGH SCHOOL SHOW BANDS, it sold out every year. Yet Lassiter High
School wins BOA and there's barely a mention and a show where the Blue
Devils, Cadets, Spirit, and the Cavaliers competed drew only a
fraction of the audience.
Do you think people travel from all over the country or watch the
Bayou Classic on NBC because it's a great game? No, they want to see
the halftime show. NBC realizes it and makes it a part of the
advertising. Remember that the next time you're wondering if the DCI
broadcast will be shown in your area.

Jeff Ream

I am the drummer your color guard captain warned you about

[cc]

I'm sure you didn't mean to reply to my post. I did not call show bands
a piece of crap. I made a comment about the movie. That is all.

Post by Kingpin
Let me get this straight: People who would defend a bad drum corps
show to the death because they don't want to "hurt the kids feelings"
are quick to pull the trigger on show bands and call them a piece a
crap? Real hypocritical. ...

[bostonpd]

I watched the last 25 minutes of the movie. I couldn't belive how
dirty the lines were. Regardless of style, couldn't they have put
together a decent battery to at least make it sound clean? They could
have recruited from DCI. Even if the actors wern't playing, at least
the audio would have the drumline sounding better than a high school.
I can't believe they couldn't at least find a line better than the one
in the movie.

Post by KayChanclr
If anyone who is quality enough of a drummer to recognize what is being played
in that movie can enlighten me with some info on any rudiments being played. I
am just curious if in the scenes where the snare line is doing something
besides playing that quarter note beat thing they are playing any rudiments or
just trash. I just don't have the skill to recognize it. Thanks for the info.

[almarich]

Drum corps isn't the be all and end all in the drumming world. It isn't
even the be all and end all in the marching drumming world. I liked
"Drumline." Those drum lines were great in their drumming world. Rich
Sennett

Post by bostonpd
I watched the last 25 minutes of the movie. I couldn't belive how
dirty the lines were. Regardless of style, couldn't they have put
together a decent battery to at least make it sound clean? They could
have recruited from DCI. Even if the actors wern't playing, at least
the audio would have the drumline sounding better than a high school.
I can't believe they couldn't at least find a line better than the one
in the movie.

Post by KayChanclr
If anyone who is quality enough of a drummer to recognize what is being played
in that movie can enlighten me with some info on any rudiments being played. I
am just curious if in the scenes where the snare line is doing something
besides playing that quarter note beat thing they are playing any rudiments or
just trash. I just don't have the skill to recognize it. Thanks for the info.

[Drew Kellas]

The drumming in the movie was not intended to be the focal point of
the movie.

I was pretty much disappointed in the quality but when I realized that
the "Story" was the issue, I filed the movie under "fluff" and let it
go.

I too would have cut the kid based on his attitude; but then there is
a certain "bravado" that the leaders of this world have that I think
leaves them as outcasts until the right fit comes along.

After seeing it in its entirity I can say that it probably will
inspire a bunch of kids to pick up sticks but I wouldn't want them to
make it their "drumming bible".

Just my $.02,

~Drew

[TAllen]

Post by Drew Kellas
The drumming in the movie was not intended to be the focal point of
the movie.
I was pretty much disappointed in the quality but when I realized that
the "Story" was the issue, I filed the movie under "fluff" and let it
go.
I too would have cut the kid based on his attitude; but then there is
a certain "bravado" that the leaders of this world have that I think
leaves them as outcasts until the right fit comes along.
After seeing it in its entirity I can say that it probably will
inspire a bunch of kids to pick up sticks but I wouldn't want them to
make it their "drumming bible".
Just my $.02,
~Drew

Grambling vs Southern:
80,000 fans in the SuperDome
Live on NBC

Division 3 Prelims:
57 fans (mostly Playa Hatas, drinkin' that HaterAde)

[VKGARRY73]

Post by TAllen
80,000 fans in the SuperDome
Live on NBC

I'll grant you the half-time broadcast. I wish they'd do it all the time, as
well as on ABC, ESPN and CBS. (Well, on NBC you'd get mostly Notre Dame.) But
do you really think all 80K are there to se tha bands square off? I'd bet that
the majority are really there for football.

Regarding the criticisms of "show style" bands, I'd say most of the opinions
here are reflected in our collective drum corps experience, as it should be.
I'd imagine we'd get plenty of criticism on a show band NG.

But, since this is a DC NG, expect the opinions to be made from a DC POV.

VKG

PS I'd still cut the punk!

Post by TAllen
<((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>¸.

·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>

[Sis]

Post by VKGARRY73

Post by TAllen
80,000 fans in the SuperDome
Live on NBC

Regarding the criticisms of "show style" bands, I'd say most of the opinions
here are reflected in our collective drum corps experience, as it should be.
I'd imagine we'd get plenty of criticism on a show band N

Not like we'd GIVE a shit! :-)

Oh, man, did I say that out loud? ;-)

Jackie

[almarich]

Post by VKGARRY73
VKG
PS I'd still cut the punk!

I also vote that I would have cut the punk. Rich Sennett

[Sis]

Post by almarich

Post by VKGARRY73
VKG
PS I'd still cut the punk!

I also vote that I would have cut the punk. Rich Sennett

Another vote for cut the punk! Jackie

[TDOGGIEFIZZLE]

i would have knocked him out like that kid did in the first drum off! that was
the best part of the movie!