2 Major Mistakes in Garfield 1987 Championship Performance

[x***@gmail.com]

Yes they did get a perfect. They had an awesome line!!

Garfield was good that year, but IMO not good enough to deserve perfect
10s with BD still to perform. I don't know how many times I've said this,
and no one has ever replied with anything that would make me change my
mind. What I do know is this -- Tom Float's BD drumline had taken the
previous four high percussion awards. Why did the judges count them out
before they even took the field? The best the drumline could do was get
perfect 10s, even if they blew Garfield off the field.

When you go pretty much undefeated the whole season in drums, chances are that won't change unless we went out on drugs. There was no way we were going to play a bad show, not that line and not that year. It wasn't about "PERFECT" rather, it was about Garfield's line .........without saying all that. Drum lines today, move and play because of that line and we were rewarded for having stretched ourselves, thus stretching the activity in marching percussion. Do ensembles today even know what the 50 was to a drumline back when? We did that. We maxed out the boxes on the sheets. Remember, it was no longer about tics (tear down) but achievement (build up). But trust me, we played a near flawless show.

Michael Jones,
Garfield Tenor
1983, 1984, 1985,
1986, 1987, 1988

Sorry, it's a big peeve of mine. Almost up there with those who feel the
rifle drop cost Phantom Regiment the title in 1978. (Hi Whitney! I'm
still alive!) :-)
Still got to hand it to Garfield in '87. The disappearing/reappearing
company front still amazes me!
-- Stuart

[x***@gmail.com]

You people will never get it... the problems were the same in the tick
system - only worse... I give up... I guess you had to be there ticking to
appreciate it... or worse... trying to teach somebody how to tick...
control tolerance... and still properly rank, rate and evaluate without
writing someone off the sheet...

See? I knew there had to be a response. :-)
Yes, I'm aware of the problems under the tick system. Jeff Mitchell has
outlined them quite nicely for us. But I dare say we have the problem in
the opposite direction under the build-up system. Where the tick system
might go too far and write a corps of the sheets, the build-up system has
too much slotting allocated to it. And it completely breaks down when a
corps has a truly outstanding or terrible show. See 1989 finals for an
example. SCV gets a 98.8? Whatever. (And I *love* SCV and that show.)
The scoring failed due to problems in slotting in the early corps that
night. And I still have yet to hear a good argument for Garfield getting
perfect 10s in 1987. The judges had a feeling? Still, what if BD whupped
Garfield's collective asses in percussion? It's a total breakdown of the
system. (And I still maintain that Garfield did not have a 0.5 point
advantage over SCV in percussion that show. That's a huge gap. I sure
haven't heard differences in execution that would justify that gap in the
score from any of the recordings I've heard.) Maybe, just maybe, the tick
system might have distinguished the differences in execution a bit better
that evening in Madison.
This discussion over the judging systems has been rehashed so many times
it's scary. We're not going to resolve any of it here. I still say one
build-up judge and one tick judge in the musical execution categories
(brass and percussion) would be great to see, but DCI can't afford it.
Such is life.
-- Stuart

Stuart, that wasn't happening that year, BD beating us in drums at any point of that season, nor the end, nobody. Well, maybe the Cavies but we would've had to be drunk out there for that. It wasn't happening that night. That "Garfield" thing was turned up full blast. We performed as dedication to Don Angelica that eve. I still watch that performance in amazement. The corps....please. just watch it. watch the sensitivity & expression. watch the colors. watch the aggression , athleticism...... watch that 3rd number featuring the percussion....... Watch to the end......................Now watch someone else......... SEE

[x***@gmail.com]

Hence, their 3rd place (tie) finish in percussion performance.
Remember..Garfield's drumline basically BLEW in 1984... brass and visual (and
GE!) overcame to win them the championship.

Actually, I was talking about Madison 88. Does anybody know what the drum
placements were for that year?
Paul Muncy

We won GE Percussion and Ensemble Percussion in 1984...... We were still figuring it. It's pretty quiet once everyone else leaves the field so you can think.......lol.

[x***@gmail.com]

Remember..Garfield's drumline basically BLEW in 1984... brass and visual (and
GE!) overcame to win them the championship.

Yeah, and don't I wish they'd blown it juuuuust a little more...2/10th
would have done it for me...I was in BD that year!
Then again, had we still been on the tick system, I think we would've
won, because, frankly, Cadets just couldn;t stay in phase while
marching.
Great horn line, though
Sam Signorelli

You drum doctors kill me....... Couldn't stay in phase? What does that mean?

[x***@gmail.com]

I've got a thought on the whole "perfect score/10" discussion. On thing that
has always bugged me about the subjective scoring system is the simple fact
that if a corps goes on early in the evening, their score will often be "lower"
than it would have been had they performed latter in the night. leaving room
for subsequent corps always seemed to me to be short-changing the early corps,
in the cases of nearly equivalent performances.
So here's my thought: Why does the subjective system have to have an absolute
top barrier? That is, since the subjective system does not judge
perfection/mistakes, what meaning does that top-end "perfection" barrier have?
If the Guam Pomerianians Drum and Bugle Corps had gone to DCI in '87 and had a
drumline that was, in every way one could concieve, better than Garfields,
would that mean that Garfield didn't deserve a 10? Would that mean that
Garfield's "perfect" drumline wasn't *as* "perfect" as Guam's? What if the
Cavaliers had a sudden, universal mutagenic accident on their drum bus,
resulting in a drumline that could best both Garfield's and Guam's, would that
make them even more "perfect"?
Of course, I don't have a coherent solution to the quandry, but complaining
feels good.
Richard, Euph
<*>
Don't sweat the petty things--and don't pet the sweaty things

Okay, last time. Blue Devils approach to marching percussion was over, done. Do you see them still doing that today? No, you don't. Though they did move a little that year, their approach to musicality and ensemble was over. Do you see them still doing that today? No, you don't.

The requirements to perform their show clean vs ours was light years apart.... so,let's say we were not that stupid word ya'll keep throwing around........but played as well as they did.... totally even, we still win because of what it takes for us to achieve and maintain that level of playing. Ya'll should really stop using that word perfect. All we said, is we won, which we did. Blame it on that "Garfield" thing. We weren't trying to please anybody.